Comments on: Bunt Singles: Grading the Tigers edition http://www.mackavenuetigers.com/2008/07/14/bunt-singles-grading-the-tigers-edition/ Wed, 03 Dec 2008 22:06:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Joe http://www.mackavenuetigers.com/2008/07/14/bunt-singles-grading-the-tigers-edition/#comment-33656 Joe Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:58:03 +0000 http://www.mackavenuetigers.com/?p=1355#comment-33656 I don't buy that a closer needs to be the team's best reliever. Besides, at this point, I trust Jones as much with Mauer and Morneau as I do Zumaya, Rodney, or anyone else in the pen. They've all melted down at crucial moments. Like I said, agree to disagree, I guess. I don’t buy that a closer needs to be the team’s best reliever. Besides, at this point, I trust Jones as much with Mauer and Morneau as I do Zumaya, Rodney, or anyone else in the pen. They’ve all melted down at crucial moments.

Like I said, agree to disagree, I guess.

]]> By: Blake http://www.mackavenuetigers.com/2008/07/14/bunt-singles-grading-the-tigers-edition/#comment-33590 Blake Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:23:15 +0000 http://www.mackavenuetigers.com/?p=1355#comment-33590 Joe, I've got Kurt's back on saves being mostly bogus. Jones is getting by on smoke and mirrors, this season more than ever. A closer should be a teams best relief pitcher, that hasn't been true about Todd in a decade or so. He's one of those guys that has gotten by on his save totals. Just ask yourself, with Mauer and Morneau coming up in the ninth inning with a one run lead, who would you feel the best having in there pitching? I cannot believe many people would say Jones. Saves is an overrated stat for the points that Kurt made and many many more. Also, to plug my own stuff, I just did a post comparing Jones to all of the other closers in baseball. He's actually worse than most even think. His stats are off the charts bad. http://www.spotstarters.com/?p=634 Joe, I’ve got Kurt’s back on saves being mostly bogus. Jones is getting by on smoke and mirrors, this season more than ever. A closer should be a teams best relief pitcher, that hasn’t been true about Todd in a decade or so. He’s one of those guys that has gotten by on his save totals. Just ask yourself, with Mauer and Morneau coming up in the ninth inning with a one run lead, who would you feel the best having in there pitching? I cannot believe many people would say Jones.

Saves is an overrated stat for the points that Kurt made and many many more.

Also, to plug my own stuff, I just did a post comparing Jones to all of the other closers in baseball. He’s actually worse than most even think. His stats are off the charts bad.

http://www.spotstarters.com/?p=634

]]> By: Joe http://www.mackavenuetigers.com/2008/07/14/bunt-singles-grading-the-tigers-edition/#comment-33583 Joe Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:31:19 +0000 http://www.mackavenuetigers.com/?p=1355#comment-33583 I know the point of this post wasn't Todd Jones, but I thought I should just link to his splits anyways, because it's interesting to see the difference between save opportunities, and the times he comes in the game in other situations: http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=jonesto02&year=2008 I know the point of this post wasn’t Todd Jones, but I thought I should just link to his splits anyways, because it’s interesting to see the difference between save opportunities, and the times he comes in the game in other situations:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=jonesto02&year=2008

]]> By: Joe http://www.mackavenuetigers.com/2008/07/14/bunt-singles-grading-the-tigers-edition/#comment-33582 Joe Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:25:53 +0000 http://www.mackavenuetigers.com/?p=1355#comment-33582 Going to have to just agree to disagree with you when it comes to saves, Kurt. Unlike wins and losses, which are influenced quite a bit by the run support (or lack thereof) which a pitcher receives, the save is wholly determined by the pitcher's ability to end a game while preserving his team's lead (ok, so defensive play plays a role). The fact that this can be accomplished sometimes while allowing a run or two is neither here nor there. Is Todd Jones a particularly good reliever? Not really. Has he been an effective closer throughout his career despite this? Yes. For all Todd's faults, he still manages to throw strikes and pitches to contact, which is pretty important when you just need three outs. To me, all that matters is that the game was saved. I don't care how many guys came to bat, how many hits they got or how many runs were scored, so long as the game ends with the Tigers still on top. At the end of the day, all stats are overrated anyways--a guy with 30 HR could hit them all when his team is either up six runs or down six runs, just about anyone batting 4th in a major league lineup will get 100 RBI, ERA can swing wildly depending on team defense, etc. I'm sure the sabermetricians can skewer the save stat 9 ways to Sunday but it's pretty absolute; either the job got done or it didn't. Going to have to just agree to disagree with you when it comes to saves, Kurt. Unlike wins and losses, which are influenced quite a bit by the run support (or lack thereof) which a pitcher receives, the save is wholly determined by the pitcher’s ability to end a game while preserving his team’s lead (ok, so defensive play plays a role). The fact that this can be accomplished sometimes while allowing a run or two is neither here nor there. Is Todd Jones a particularly good reliever? Not really. Has he been an effective closer throughout his career despite this? Yes. For all Todd’s faults, he still manages to throw strikes and pitches to contact, which is pretty important when you just need three outs.

To me, all that matters is that the game was saved. I don’t care how many guys came to bat, how many hits they got or how many runs were scored, so long as the game ends with the Tigers still on top. At the end of the day, all stats are overrated anyways–a guy with 30 HR could hit them all when his team is either up six runs or down six runs, just about anyone batting 4th in a major league lineup will get 100 RBI, ERA can swing wildly depending on team defense, etc. I’m sure the sabermetricians can skewer the save stat 9 ways to Sunday but it’s pretty absolute; either the job got done or it didn’t.

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