It’s time, Detroit: Fire Jim Leyland
posted in 2008 season |I am not a reactionary blogger. I think if you’ve read me with any regularity, you know I tend toward the sane path, the middle ground, ignoring the talk radio and message board fodder. I try to think and analyze and be patient. So, I am not making a rash proclamation here:
Jim Leyland has to go.
To borrow from the Pistons’ introduction video: It’s time, Detroit.
It’s time to get rid of a manager whose decisions infrequently made sense and whose team seemed at times in the past two years to win despite him.
This team is really starting to piss me off. Which, you know, is a good thing. There were two directions this season could have gone once it became apparent this team sucks.
- I could have lost interest and stopped watching the games, as many fans have chosen to do.
- I could get more and more and more pissed off at the awful way this team is being run.
So it’s No. 2 for now. So while I still care, Jim Leyland has to go.
There are things a manager cannot do:
- Swing the bat for the batter.
- Pitch the ball for the pitcher.
- Make the final call on roster moves that overstock the team with no-field designated hitters
So I don’t blame Leyland for Magglio Ordonez’s proclivity for grounding into double plays, or for Miguel Cabrera’s thus-far bust at the plate, or for the Tigers’ pitchers nibbling at the corners — when they find the corners — and grooving balls down the middle of the plate. No, this team would be losing its fair share of games no matter who was at the helm — you, me, Joe Torre, Larry Parish, Bob Melvin. This mess does not fully rest on Leyland’s shoulders, make no mistake.
But there are things a manager has control over that are really pissing me off.
- GARY SHEFFIELD SUCKS AND PLAYS NEARLY DAILY
Sheffield is done. He should retire. Good riddance. I should have believe fans of every. single. team. he ever played for. He’s a damned waste of a roster spot. When he’s hitting, which he did for about 2 months last season, you just wish he’s shut his damn mouth and play baseball. And when he’s not hitting, and he’s hurting, HE PLAYS ANYWAY. He can’t throw. He admits this. He can’t hit. Maybe he doesn’t admit that. He’s not healthy. He admits this. But Leyland (and Dave Dombrowski) will not admit it, too. So they keep running his black-hole offense and poor defense out every day, while a guy — the only who has actually hit the ball outside the playing field! — sits the bench. This makes no sense. The purpose of the game of baseball is to win, not keep your overpaid, achey veteran in the lineup.
- CARLOS GUILLEN CANNOT PLAY A SINGLE POSITION AND IS IN THE FIELD NEARLY DAILY
This relates to Gary Sheffield, because it is so obvious the only possible place Carlos Guillen should occupy on the lineup card is designated hitter. He could have been a first baseman, I’m sure. But Miguel Cabrera couldn’t play third base and was too young to use as a designated hitter. (That is obviously not Leyland’s fault). Of course, Sheffield sometimes plays in left field, and rather than use Brandon Inge as the third baseman — a position he plays beautifully — the rookie, slick outfielder Matt Joyce becomes designated hitter. Well, yes, that makes PERFECT sense. Oh wait, it makes ZERO sense. This team is eventually going to hit. It’s already starting to pitch. But it’s never going to field, and will not be a contender unless changes are made to address that weakness.
- THE GUYS WHO WANT TO PLAY BASEBALL WITH ZEST SIT THE BENCH
Look, I know you’re not going to win 100 games playing your lesser-talented players even if they play the game with love and excitement. But frankly, you’re not going to win 100 games with this bunch of no-hit gimps in the field either. So I get more-and-more frustrated when I see Inge sit the bench while Guillen lollygags his way to another error, or Matt Joyce or Ryan Raburn sit the bench while the beerleague outfielder lobs the ball in that he jogged to retrieve. Or hell, poor Clete Thomas! He played with energy, had fun, and was fun to watch, and now he’s in AAA-Toledo.
It seems like such a simple solution. Gary Sheffield is hurting, can’t hit, can’t field. Disabled list. Carlos Guillen can’t field. Designated hitter. Brandon Inge (who can’t hit, to be sure) plays near-gold glove defense at third. Let him. Matt Joyce/Clete Thomas play solid in the outfield. Start them in left. Why does he not do this?!?! Even if they lost, the games would be a lot more palatable than the way they are currently losing.
And there are other sins:
- The team looks sloppy. The fielding is awful. If this is a failure of mechanics, that rests on the manager. If this is a failure of concentration, that, too, rests on the manager. This is not something new.
- There is no accountability. Run the ball out, don’t run the ball out. Call for a ball, don’t call for a ball. Concentrate in an at-bat, don’t concentrate in an at-bat. It does not matter to Jim Leyland. He’ll keep trotting the same bunch of guys out no matter how many things they do wrong.
- As more of Leyland’s guys (Edgar Renteria, Gary Sheffield, Neifi Perez) were brought to the team, it got worse. Coincidence? Hmm.
- The no-hit, no-OBP catcher sometimes bats leadoff.
- The bullpen is disorganized and players are not put in the best position to succeed. (See long reliever /spotstarter Zach Miner pitching in a close-and-late game with runners on base. This has worked out like, never?)
I’m sure it can go on and on. I’ve edited and re-organized this post repeatedly and I feel like I’m still leaving a lot of the small stuff on the cutting room floor. But it comes down to this:
This team is underperforming, and the manager is not holding anyone accountable for their poor play, so he must be held accountable for the team’s play.
It’s time, Detroit. Fire Jim Leyland before it’s too late.
Sphere It
We’re often on the same page when it comes to the Tigers. I agree they are PAINFUL to watch, and I’m on my last straw. But as drastic a measure as canning Leyland is one I have to think about long and hard. Let alone I have no idea who could replace him.
I have no response to the points made, it’s all correct. Guillen’s days in the field are numbered. The young guys have done nothing but perform well, yet don’t get on the field. The Sheffield thing is mystifying. I thought he couldn’t throw, but Leyland had him back in LF last night. HUH?! The Sheffield situation alone has me leaning to your way of thinking.
I do believe Mike Ilitch will want someone held accountable if the season continues in a downward spiral (I see no reason to think it won’t). You can’t fire the players, and Dave Dombrowski is safe, no matter the result. The manager has to be the fall guy. It may be just a matter of when Dombrowski decides to pull the trigger.
If I’m “Big I” spending $140M, I would be pretty mad to see it going down in a spiral like this. You put together a real dream team, you hope to see it do a little better than .400 and play a little better than “Little League.” The manager has been the one making the nonsensical moves, he goes.
I don’t know who could replace Leyland. But preferably someone who doesn’t make the same nonsensical moves he does. That alone should improve the team. And that shouldn’t be too hard to find, right?
If something isn’t done soon it worries me about the impact this season will have on our future star players. Grandy, Cabrera, Raburn, others. Especially the pitchers, Bondo and Justin. It just isn’t fair to expect your pitcher to win with the stop-gap measures that Leyland is using.
I don’t know if i totally agree with getting rid of Leyland. But, maybe it will have to happen. And you guys are right, he will be the fall guy.
I just don’t want to see the attitudes/outlook of our current players who DO belong here(not shef or carlos) to go to shit. They deserve better than this. Unless, maybe, i’d hate to even think it, but maybe they are just happy being paid for the most part and are like oh well we’ll get em next time attitude. We’re becoming the DAMNED YANKEES day by day and i get to cry myself to sleep at night.
But I will continue to stand by them, even if i disagree, I love my Tigers and always will. But, this has been the hardest team I’ve ever had to watch. Even the current Pistons are easier to take in than the ‘08 Tigers. Please Jim, see the light soon. Get mean, get dirty, ….just get smart. You did it before in Pit and Florida, do it now. Before it’s too late. But, it is too late. ‘08 record= 62-100 sad, sad, sad
The more I thought about your post, I have to say, I see your logic. Every other card has been played, the only one left is firing the manager. Still, I just don’t think Dombrowski would do it.
Hell, even I know enough not to bat Pudge leadoff, and that Sheff should be on the DL! I may throw my hat into the ring.
Since we’re talking hypotheticals… Seriously, who would/could take over? Andy Van Slyke? I like him, but he has no experience. Lloyd McCenndon? He has the experience, but God no. Larry Parrish has been doing good things at Toldeo. He’s a better manager now than he was the first go round. He’d be my pick for an interim manager.
Dammit Kurt! Now you got me thinking about possible scenarios!
Terry Francona just named the Skipper to the All-Star game coaching staff. They won’t fire him just yet.
Francona probably lost a bet in the offseason.
I don’t think anything will happen to Leyland, I’m just asking — begging — for better decision making anywhere in the organization.
Gene Lamont has managed before. If we need an in-season replacement, it might as well be him. Then this off-season, hire one Kirk Gibson to manage the Tigers. No way he’d stand for some of the crap we’ve witnessed.
I’m not opposed to seeing Leyland fired but there are some moves that I think need to be made which I don’t think would happen even with a new manager. I believe Leyland is forced to cater to Sheffield and Guillen because of their seniority and their contracts and that will likely remain a problem even with a new manager. I’d like to see them force Sheffield onto the DL (or some place else where he won’t get in the way) and Guillen to DH before they do anything else. I may be wrong but I think those are decisions that go beyond the manager.
I think I’m on board with you on not liking the job Leyland is doing but I’d rather see player moves. If those those moves can happen more easily without Leyland, then I’d want to see him fired.
Lee
All of this talk of shifting Guillen to DH disturbs me. Carlos Guillen is the team leader in the infield, and I think that there are intangibles that he brings to the table while playing the field that would be lost if he was to DH everyday. I know that the dropped foul fly the other night may contradict that, and that would be a fair counter argument. However, I like to go back to something that Rob Neyer at ESPN wrote about the move when it happened. The Cabrera-Guillen switch will certainly be better for the team in 3 months, but does Detroit have the patience to wait out the growing pains at each position? Guillen has made 5 errors at third in 17 games. You must admit that 17 games is a pretty small sample size. I think that the historical evidence of shortstops making the switch to third late in their careers shows that Carlos could still end up being a solid third baseman. It is just going to take more than 17 games to show that.
Geez I didn’t even remember to mention Leyland’s confusion over what to do about the screwed up lineup.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080515/SPORTS02/805150428/1050/rss15
Or today’s quote along those lines:
“This offense is not supposed to get shut out like that. Or as often as it has been.
“I can’t sugarcoat it. I don’t know the answer.”
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080518/SPORTS0104/805180332/1129/rss15
Sorry, but you’re the guy in charge of a $140M payroll. I think the Tigers should probably expect the answer to be found soon, or should hire someone else to look for it.
Travis, I’d agree with you that 17 games is a bit small to judge by, but the problem is, I think you risk looking at Guillen in a vacuum if you only consider his time at third base and make the blanket statement that other shortstops have been able to change positions.
For the past two seasons before that, Guillen showed a decreasing range, but that wasn’t the real sin. He had a bunch of throwing errors. I wish I knew how to find the breakdown of errors to confirm what my eyes saw, but far as I recall, he just wasn’t doing a good job of getting balls cleanly to first.
So at third, maybe he doesn’t need quite as much range, though it wouldn’t hurt, but he’s throwing all the way across the diamond. Balls are getting by him, and when they’re not, he’s pulling Cabrera off first. It’s hard enough for the kid to learn a new position on the fly, his third baseman can’t get him the ball cleanly way too often.
I do agree that Guillen serves as a captain in the infield and his leadership abilities seem to be pretty good from an outsider’s view. That does carry value. But this is an intangible, and how we do know it’s not a leadership position another person on the infield can’t take over?
Given that the infield isn’t a very good one defensively, I’m not sure how much good Guillen’s leadership is doing. Plus, it’s an experienced group of players. It’s not like they have a bunch of rookies playing the infield. Couldn’t Renteria or Polanco take on a leadership role if necessary? I will admit that 17 games is a small sample size. However, the type of errors he was making at shortstop last year don’t seem like the type of errors that would be eliminated at third base. He made errors on a lot of routine plays last year.
Time for him to have a smoke from the Grand Stands.
Thanks,
Jerry
i think it is time to fire jim leyland the tigers are 3 highest ball tteam in baseball ,if thay wre smart thay would bring back allen tramell